Building The Amazon For Social Good

Brandon Stover: [00:00:53] Hey, everyone. Welcome to evolve. I'm Brandon Stover and today's guest after fighting the good fight for over a decade, serving as a senior communications advisor to the members of Congress and the Obama administration decided to start driving some of the hundred and 30 trillion in consumer spending to what Forbes has called the Amazon for social good.

Since starting from the inside the Harvard innovation lab in 2015, they've partnered with over 200 brands, including names like Patagonia and Warby Parker tripled their community to over a hundred thousand members and diverted over $1 million to companies dedicating to making the world a better place.

This social entrepreneur is combating climate change, fighting economic inequality and creating a more just world with the world's most powerful force for change the dollars we all spend. And they are not alone. The platform features thousands of products that are eco-friendly fair, trade organic and made by workers, earning a living wage.

They have partnered with organizations like 1% for the planet rainforest Alliance, B lab and free the slaves. And they have created a movement with over 50 companies and major non-profits known as shop for good Sunday, the alternative to black Friday and cyber Monday.

This socially conscious company has been awarded the B Corp best of the world award once startup competitions at Harvard and MIT, and has been recognized as a game changer by the Huffington post Washington post Forbes, CNBC wired Mashable, fast company, and so many more

today's guests, none other than the co-founder of done good Cullen Shwarz.

Now before Cullen decided to trade in his political suit for a startup t-shirt he started learning about the conscientious consumerism movement  while being a leader in the United students against sweatshops in college.

After seeing his parents standing up for others and their union, while growing up.

Cullen Schwarz: [00:02:43] Yeah. I mean, that is the, kind of the Genesis of all this when I was an undergrad. Why was I involved in social and environmental causes? That's a, great question. Now I can feel like I've laid down on the couch for that, for that one.  You know, my my folks were, were educators. They were active in their, in their union, standing up for workers rights in that, in that way.

I think just kind of instilled the idea that, you know Caring for others and standing up for standing up for people for other people was a, you know, a lot of a thing for a human to do.  I really got involved though. When I got back, I did it, the study abroad trip when I was in school, the trip was backpacking around Asia. And so I always, any, any kid, like my little cousins, I'm always on, wait, where are you going to study abroad? How are you going to study abroad? Because. I think that just getting, seeing other people, other cultures, other countries helps to expand your, consciousness while also helping you really realize the similar humanness of, you know, every single person around the world.

So anyway, I, you know, when I got back from that, I always, you know, was had a, I guess, a bent toward. No, I'm social justice helping others. But when I got back from that trip, I said, okay, I need to get serious and really get involved. And I got, like you said, I, I got involved with an organization called United students against sweatshops among other organizations, but that one I really gravitated toward and, ended up in the national leadership of that, that group.

And. We would get universities across the country to put a code of conduct in their apparel contracts. I mean, every major university is spending a lot of money, giving out huge contracts to companies to produce all their licensed apparel, all the sweatshirts with the university logo in the bookstore and everywhere else.

And those are huge contracts and that's a lot of money and companies really want those contracts. And so. We would say to universities, look, do you want your, school's clothing to be made in, you know, quote unquote sweatshop conditions? Do you know, do you want all of this stuff to be made on the backs of poverty, labor, or unsafe conditions or child or trafficked labor and you know, a lot of universities, some, some would readily agree.

Some you'd need to do a little sit in and the administrator's office, or sometimes, you know, depending those are always fun to organize. yeah, that really opened my eyes to the power of consumerism as a tool for social change, right. This wasn't public policy, or it wasn't getting, getting a bill passed and it wasn't a nonprofit, doing something for the right to know those things that continue to believe are critically important, but this was just a customer with a lot of money who could dictate terms, right?

I mean, it's, it's supply and demand and as consumers. the consumer can demand anything that, that we want and we can demand, you know, a good price or this, these certain specifications in the product and product quality and whatever else we can demand social change. Right? Like these universities could say, okay, look you, in order to get in this contract and get our money, you have to demonstrate that you're paying at least a basic, I mean, it wasn't even like a living wage necessarily, but it was like above, above poverty, above a terrible wage and basic safety standards and no child and traffic labor, and and things like that. And so, you know, companies would companies that want these contracts and want that money would comply. And, you know, we could, the customer was demanding better conditions for workers in the environment. And then that's what the market supplies, right.

And so I thought, well, if you can get millions of consumers together, individual consumers together, That could be even more powerful collectively. We all have, even in the U S alone have more money and therefore more power than even these, these universities.

Call To Adventure: Going into politics

Brandon Stover: [00:06:15] Fundamental experience in college, but then decided to go into politics after graduation. But after a while, you started to realize politics was slow to make change. When did you decide that politics was not the right place for you to make the change you wanted?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:06:29] You know, after being there a while and you get to, you get to feeling like you're fighting the other side to an endless tie. I mean, I had, you know, done, well and was, grateful to be in the positions I was. And in my career I think you mentioned a communications director for, us senators and done us Senate and gubernatorial campaigns, and then working in the Obama administration.

And those were all really good jobs and I was grateful for them. And. we were working really hard and we're doing a lot of things at the end of the day, you know, you're fighting the other side to an endless tie. And one, one Senate office, we worked for three years on this major piece of legislation.

It was our office as top priority. And we finally got it through Congress and signed by the president bipartisan agreement. I mean, so near impossible task and in DC these days, By the time we were done, I mean, we had a pretty reform minded piece of legislation, but at the time, you know, you, you've got to compromise the hell out of it to get it passed, which, you know, okay, look, compromise is a good thing.

Working with the other side can be a good thing, give and take, you know, talking things out and getting something done. But in order to do that, you have to compromise so much. And I think it's so watered down by the time all this work over three years of my life, I said, Okay. We made one area of federal policy, slightly less shitty, know, it's still shitty policy.

Like I still wouldn't, I wouldn't design it this way. My boss would to design it this way. No, nobody who voted on it would have decided any of these particular ways. And, and it's a common rises which had to do, but so like, man, like it was better. than the status quo, what we had achieved, but by a little, you know, I mean, and so you just like, look at this past election, this past election was critically important.

I think it was super important that everybody who voted voted and, you know, fought so hard and they will make a difference culturally. Right. What we see on TV every day, who the president is, what young people, when they hear what a president says, what are they hearing? Those things are all critically important.

Are we going to get legislation of the magnitude to combat a problem? Like climate change? No, and we wouldn't either way and it doesn't matter. Like, and so. There have there have to be ways to work around, right? Like I just couldn't spend the rest of my life, but I'm really glad that there are other energetic, young people who are in DC fighting the good fight and fighting the other side to an endless time, because at least we needed the enlist side.

But we need something other than the endless time and there have to be other ways to create change. And so I, I just, I looked around and I said, what do I really believe can be the number one. For us for, for positive change in the world. And I do believe it's consumer spending,

Why Consumer Spending

Brandon Stover: [00:08:59] Why is consumer spending such a powerful driver for change?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:09:02] we always talk about how Americans gave $400 billion I think it was actually about 450 billion last year. We've been saying 400 for a couple of years. Now it's up to four 50. That's good. It's going up. So Americans gave $450 billion to all NGOs, to all the charities in the country. And that's great. And it's critically important. We spent 325 times more than that buying stuff. We're going to spend $1 trillion alone on holiday gifts, right over the, you know, the course of a month and a half.

it just a fraction of that money that we're all spending can help combat climate change can help reduce poverty and income inequality. It can empower communities, man, that has a lot of potential that really holds promise.

And. If you can get, like I said, yeah, just even, you know, a large number of people, even diverting a tiny fraction of their spending, you can quickly eclipse all the resources for that go to all the nonprofits. And so you know, we see that happening, right? We're changing the old Milton Friedman model, the 20th century, the prevailing ideology that permeated everything and said, well in business, business is business and businesses.

Purpose is to maximize profit at all costs. And that was just accepted as fact. For a long time. And now that is changing, right? You're you're starting to see more social enterprises, businesses with a mission. Beyond just maximizing profit and saying, look, we can do things different way. We can use highly eco-friendly practices.

We can help through our core business address, climate change, we can help pay living wages and help people live themselves out of poverty. We can invest in communities and create lasting change. And so that's really exciting that those businesses are starting more and more of them are starting out to now, you're even seeing some of the, you know, larger corporations take a cue and say, Hey, there's consumer demand for this.

We can make money at this. And the more you can galvanize consumers and get more and more people to wield that consumer power, their purchasing power, then the more social enterprises there be, there will be the more larger companies will start to change. And then you can really start to impact, you know, you can really start to.

To address some of these problems in a way that I just don't think DC cap, or at least hasn't shown a willingness to, or there's too much good luck to now. I mean, if things change somehow down there, then, maybe there's hope down there again. But as of right now, I really do believe that, you know, whatever we're calling it, the business for good movement, the social enterprise movement, the ethical, sustainable business movement, and then conscious consumer movement that, that accelerates and drives that change.

That's the hope, that's the hope for humanity.

Meeting The Mentor: Harvard Innovation Lab

Brandon Stover: [00:11:29] So now you're at the point that you believe business is the greatest force for change, but you have never started a business. And you did not know anything about startups. So when you decided to start up done good with your co-founder Scott, you went ahead and applied to the Harvard innovation lab. How did you guys get into the Harvard innovation lab and what did they help with the most in terms of practical training and knowledge?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:11:51] The first thing about startups. I mean, coming from the political world, you know, so, okay, we have this, this, this vision and this mission and, you know, okay, this belief, this, this theory of change, right. That consumer spending can create massive change. And that's about all we had, you know, when we applied to the Harvard, I lived with the idea and we got in with, with the idea, but I didn't know, I mean, seriously, some of those first workshops I'm writing down, you know, eight words to look up later, angel investor and MVP, you know what I mean?

Like, then there's, but now terms as though people at least have a baseline, knowledge Of the startup world and I really was at zero. so the innovation lab that, that program really, I mean, it was, it was critical just to knowing how startups work and, and getting us off, getting us off the ground and then, you know, a network of other entrepreneurs and network of experts.

And we got some of our first press, they would bring in reporters to give you advice about. Talking to reporters and reaching out to press, which that was the one. I was a spokesman for politicians. I did PR for positive. So talking to reporters is one thing, but so I then talked to one in a, you know, in a workshop, in an advice session.

And he was like, well, it was the guy at the Boston globe. Well, will I'll write a story about your grade. And you, you talk to investors Not to pitch them, but just to get advice on pitching investors. Well, we got to know a couple of investors that way, and some of our earliest investors and advisors came, came through that.

So it was really helpful in that area.

Brandon Stover: [00:13:15] Hey, this is Brandon Stover and you're listening to the evolve podcast with Cullen Schwartz have done good in just a moment, you're going to hear how colon started building a Yelp style app for locally social conscious brick and motor stores during his time at the Harvard innovation lab and why this first iteration just was not going to work.

But before we get there, I just wanted to let you know that all the resources and lessons from this episode are available as a free worksheet at evolve. The world slash episode slash Cullen Shwarz. All of the lessons, Cullen is sharing are very, very valuable, but they are only as valuable as the ones that you actually put into execution.

That's why I distill all of the action items from each episode, including this one. Into one, easy to use step-by-step worksheet. So you can immediately apply them to your life and business

lessons, like how to solve the chicken and the egg problem of marketplaces. How to think about conscious consumers versus regular consumers advice for social entrepreneurs, just starting out and so much more. These lessons are available at evolve. the.world/episodes/colon shorts. That's evolve the.world. Slash episodes slash colon shorts, or you can follow the link inside the show notes of your podcast app.

also, Colin was generous enough to give all my listeners that's you guys, $20 off their purchase of a hundred dollars or more when you use the code evolve twenty@checkoutondonegood.com. So now you have the opportunity to choose ethical and sustainable brands much easier.

So use the code evolve 20 that's E V O L V E 20 a checkout for $20 off your purchase at  dot com.

Now let's get back to the evolve podcast with Colin Schwartz have done good as he describes his first app for done good. And why it turned out to be a terrible idea to connect people to socially conscious brands

The Plan: Starting A Yelp AppCullen Schwarz: [00:15:04] Our first iteration was a Yelp style app for local brick and mortar stores. That was cool. We thought, you know it was just in the greater Boston area. We were testing out that model. We, we learned a lot about the use case for an app like that.

Right. And it's, and of course, it's, you know, when are you using some of that? Well, I'm in this neighborhood and I want lunch right now, or I'm meeting my friend or I'm going out on a date on Friday night, or I'm going to have a business meeting at a coffee shop. that model didn't work at all for a few reasons.

And one was that even though we had, we had over 1200 businesses in the greater Boston area. If it's, Hey, Hey Brandon, let's have a business meeting at a coffee shop. Okay, great. Well, it's going to be near your office or my office or in-between so, okay. So now of our 1200 businesses, now it's just coffee shops and now it's just coffee shops in this area.

Or maybe why I feel like Italian food. Okay. Well now I went from children or business to Italian restaurants. And if you want to, you know, or I'm trying to go somewhere nice, cause it's our anniversary or I'm trying to go somewhere casual. Cause you know, I just need some quick, fast food or whatever. All of a sudden you're dealing with a very small business, you know, universe of businesses.

And then to find one that is, ethical, sustainable, you know, a social enterprise, we, you know, out of 1200, all of a sudden your search criteria, we might be like, well, we have one that kind of meets your criteria three miles away. Well, I'm a young person on foot. I'm not going three miles, three miles in the city is an eternity.

I mean, I'm not, I'm not going to do that, And so that plus to get to the 1200 businesses, we had to kind of let on any business that had any one of our eight done good criteria. One of those was locally owned, right? Cause all we had locally on that's something that we believe in. Well, I'm telling you start to, like, some of these locally owned businesses are using styrofoam, paying, living, paying minimum wage.

We had one local florist who said, I hope you guys fail. I fly my flowers in from China every morning. So, I mean, I mean, the, the worker issues, the environmental issues that he, you know, he's, he's a Bismal and that really kind of changed my thinking on local too. Right. Like I, you know, just because someone lives in my community doesn't really mean their business is good.

You know, like, I think there's, there's reasons to shop. Well local I mean, because a lot of times local will be better than a major corporation on environmental and worker issues, but in that all the time, man, you know, and so it's like, just because someone is near me, Well, what does that, that doesn't guarantee anything, you know, there's, there's amazing businesses, social enterprises who are in, who don't happen to be in my town and there's some answer great businesses, right?

so we also, then weren't working with really the kind of businesses I was inspired to work with the kind of business I set out to create, done good to support. Plan: Getting First Brands

Brandon Stover: [00:17:36] Were you and your co-founders the only one like going and getting all of these brands together? Or how did you like culminate, you know, 200 brands and especially in the beginning? Yeah.

Cullen Schwarz: [00:17:46] Yeah, no, at first that's right. You know at first it definitely was that So there was like three of us or we brought a third person on, there was a bunch of interns and, you know, I mean, there's like something like a hundred people that worked for good over the years, even we're still pretty small spontaneous just because, you know, counting interns and, past team members and things like that.

Plan: After the yelp app to chrome plugin to affliate

Brandon Stover: [00:18:03] is this, when you guys decided to shift your brand to online shopping?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:18:07] After we did the Yelp style app, then we moved to our Chrome plugin, which we still have. And the way that that works is. You can go to you, go to our website Donegood.com And click and install it once. And then anytime you're on Amazon or searching for products, or you do a shopping related search on Google, or you go to a big name, retailer websites, you'll see the done good approved alternative brand along the side of your screen.

So again, just moving your mouse, a few inches. We launched that in the fall of 2016. We got a lot of national press on that that had a lot of cool gizmo gadget cashier, you know? And so that helped, that helped kind of catapult us. Then we were, then we were on the national stage, not just testing things in greater Boston and, you know, got a lot of national press got our initial user base and started to have momentum. And then we were able to fundraise some.

Plan: Shifting Online

Brandon Stover: [00:18:59] Why make the choice to shift to online shopping?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:19:02] because one, instead of asking people to walk three miles, you're asking them to move their mouse three inches, and it's just, whenever you're talking about trying to galvanize behavior change, well, how, much behavior change are you asking for? Cause that will directly determine how much behavior change you get, you know? And so you gotta make it really easy for folks. Also because we were working, then we were able to work with businesses across the country instead of stale from city to city.

And we then could work with. Businesses that were truly crushing it, you know, like it just incredible innovation on, eco-friendly materials and business practices, paying, living wages. investing in financial literacy classes or you know, helping women escapes, sex trafficking, providing skills training while they're working at that company, paying a living wage while they're working at the company, but then training.

So they can have professional careers opens up more jobs to help more women. I mean, just these, these incredible stories, the kinds of businesses we really thought like, okay, these kinds of businesses are changing the world as opposed to like. A local florist who doesn't give it to him, or, I mean, there's some of those businesses on that first app were great, but a lot of them were, or even if they were just, you know, they were women owned or a person of color owned.

Okay, well, we want to put those out and people can see that they're woman or person personal color. And if they want to shop, for those reasons, but at the same time, once again, it could be, it could be a woman owned and still paying a living wage and still not being particularly good for the environment.

And so then what's the, what's the point. So now the businesses we work with are just. And you know, inspiring across the board and true social enterprises.

Plan: Online Shopping More SustainableBrandon Stover: [00:20:30] can you explain a little bit how e-commerce can actually have a lower environmental impact?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:20:36] A lot of times that it took a lot of shipping to get these products from the, through the supply chain and to some factory in to your local store. Plus you're driving your car. To the local store. If you drive your car to the local store, are you driving your car? Car is actually the biggest carbon footprint of producing the product and getting it to your town at all.

If you go on foot, it's somewhat better, but still even then, it's like, you know, it's often a pretty close call between you know, the carbon emissions of, of online shopping versus shopping in store. And we actually offset all the carbon for all the shipping for every order placed on done. Good. So, in that respect, it's actually more eco-friendly.

To shop on Donegood then to shop in store. Now that's all to say. Like, I still think if you know of awesome social enterprises, right. Companies that are really doing good for people in the planet, in your town, I still highly encourage you to also supporting those local companies. for me personally, if it's supporting an amazing company, that's fighting poverty and climate change that's happens to be in another town versus just buying whatever.

Cause it happens to be in my town. I just, I want to support that. The social enterprise that's really doing, doing good for people in the environment, you know, whenever I can.

Plan: Becoming An Affiliate Marketplace

Brandon Stover: [00:21:43] When did  start to become a marketplace?

In fall of 2017, we launched an affiliate shopping site to the, the plugin. Cullen Schwarz: [00:21:51] And that was the easier model to, get started with just a few people, but not a ton of, yeah. So the way that works is you can still shop, you can search all the products on our site.

You can find the products, but then once you click the, you got transported to our partner brand site, To make the purchase. And so again, that was easy to execute easier for our partners to get on board with. I mean, we're just driving more traffic to their site. But for the, from the user experience standpoint, you know, if you wanted to buy three products, then you had to go to three different partners sites and check out three different times.

And that's a hassle and people don't like that. Right. So it's, it's all about,  behavior change. The greater the change you're asking for the less of it you're going to get. our journey has always been constantly minimizing the amount of behavior change we're asking for it and making it as easy and frictionless as possible for more people to participate, because that means more people will make the more conscious choice more often and we'll divert more dollars to social enterprises, which is the ultimate mission.

Brandon Stover: [00:22:49] When building an online marketplace, it's kind of like a chicken and the egg problem. Do you build a user base first or do you build the brand side first? How did you guys end up tackling this problem at Donegood?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:22:59] We elaborate hands on for free to start, you know, and, and in some cases didn't ask for ugly. We were like, well, if anyone's upset that we're giving them free promotion. We'll let them call us and believe it or not, no one did it turns out no business was upset that we were helping more customers find them for free.

Right. So we were just, we were pre-revenue for awhile and we that's how we built the content around businesses. Some of those businesses, we would say. Hey, well, we'll let Sean for free if you give us a discount for our users and we'll promote done good to your customer base, right? So, you know, email, your list posts about us on social media, things like that.

So we were kind of trade, trade promotion for promotion, right? And we could get content in the way of having partner brands on board. which allowed us to get users, but then it also meant our partner brands were helping us to get used.

Approach: Transition To Full Marketplace

Brandon Stover: [00:23:47] So now you guys have been an app. You've been a plugin, you've been an affiliate marketplace, but none of those were the optimal solution to solve this problem. So when did you guys transition to a full blown marketplace?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:23:59] there was reasons that we, we, again, we executed that way to start that helped us a mass, this, you know, our community of brands and helped us build that brand base and that consumer base more easily at first.

But now we have made our full transition to a true marketplace site to truly become more of what, forbes called us, which is the, the Amazon for social good. So that now you can, you know, you can just run the checkout. On our site, you can, you can check out multiple products for multiple brands in one checkout on our site.

So it's a lot easier, but you know, to get there again, we wanted to, we want to make sure we're always helping brands. That means our business model was set up. So it's always a win for them. Like they only pay us a percent on every sale, so they always come out ahead. But we also, have always had to be very conscious that we don't.

I want to create a lot more work for our partner brands either. Right. And so in order to run a true marketplace like this, we didn't want them to have to do extra work in terms of coordinating inventory with us. Right. Like if they're out of stock and they have to call us up and tell us, it can't be a hassle, has to be totally seamless, automated technology.

Right. So we knew we had to get to that point where. Whatever's on their site is automatically on our sites and goes out of stock on their site. It's automatically out of stock on our site. And then same thing with orders. You know, when an order is placed on our site, it gets placed immediately. Like as, just as though that order went on, their website goes into their existing fulfillment process and they don't have to do anything differently than they otherwise would.

That was really important to us too. Because again, if we have to create a lot of new systems for them. They have to do a lot of extra work then are we truly providing value? Yeah, look, we're getting you some more sales, but at the cost of all this extra time and effort and work. So we wanted it to be, these are just additional sales that they wouldn't have made otherwise that they don't have to do any work for.

That was important to us. Now that's a win. Now we are helping those social enterprises be more successful. And so we had to get there before we could make that, that that leap to the marketplace..

Approach: Business Model

Brandon Stover: [00:25:49] Is your guys's business model is still taking 10% of a commission of each of the purchases?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:25:54] Yes, that's right. Yeah. We, we earn a commission on the purchases and that means. we don't charge companies upfront at all. And that means that whatever they pay us is going to be commensurate with the value that we're providing them. And they're always going to come out ahead and they're always going to make money.

And that what that all really means is we're always going to be helping them. Because that is genuinely why we do this, right. We're trying to help make social enterprises more successful. So there will be more of prey and continually increase and help to demonstrate that there is consumer demand for companies that are doing the right thing.

Because once again, it's supply and demand. Once there is demand, then more will be supplied. Right. but If we charged companies, you know, Hey, give us $5,000 to be on the platform. Well, are we making 5,001 or more dollars in sales for them? And if not, what in the hell was the point? And so we have tried to set all of this up.

So it's always a win for our partners. It's all everything we do. We always try to make sure that it's a, that it's a win-win. And because that, again, that, that is the point. .

Brandon Stover: [00:26:53] Yeah, it seems like both on the consumer side and on the brand side, like you're trying to meet them where they are. You're trying to make it as easy as possible, like a no brainer for everybody so that, Instead of going to buy something on Amazon, because it's super easy for everybody. It's like, well, it's just as easy to need to come over here and buy this stuff.

Ordeal: Going Against AmazonCullen Schwarz: [00:27:10] Yes, that's exactly right. And you know, we still, I mean, we still can't match Amazon on everything. Right. We can't do. Free two day shipping or one day shipping and things and things like that. So people are gonna have to, they're not gonna be looking at everything they can get on Amazon and, you know, whoever just knows, I mean, one day, you know, maybe we can get there, but can we, you know, we have to do that without.

Treating warehouse workers like Amazon treats their warehouse workers. I mean, there's that two day shipping comes at a human cost as well. Right. I mean that more and more is coming out and coming out about that last couple of years. but yes, I mean as much as possible, right? It's as easy as possible, making it as affordable as possible.

We negotiate with our partner brands to. To try to provide discounts and things so that ethical shopping can be more accessible to more people as well. Right? I mean, it's, it's easier, every respect, right? Like all of us are busy. You got to help save people time and make it fast and convenient.

We're all trained to want things quick and easy. And so. we've discovered that conscious consumers are still a lot, like other consumers in a lot of ways, right? Like still strapped for time, still want clothes that look cool and fit well. And you know what I mean?

And you know, what's their return policy going to be, and is it within my budget, the conscious consumers are still trying to check all those boxes. Plus they want to know about ethics and sustainability. And so it's really important. We, I had a mentor at the Harvard. I'll have to say one time, you know, there's a lot of people trying to be.

The the sustainable blank, you know what I mean? Or the, the eco-friendly blank, like whatever we were, we were trying to be the Yelp with a conscience. Now we're trying to be the Amazon for social good or whatever it is. Right. She said, you have to be really good then at being the blank. If you're the Yelp for something, if you're the Amazon for something, if you're the, whatever, the sustainable version of whatever, you gotta be really good at being whatever you got for the Amazon for good.

We've got to try to be like Amazon. And not in their business practices, but in their, you know, ease of use. Yeah. As much as possible. And so that's, we're always striving for that. Yes. Both for, shoppers and for our partner brands.

Brandon Stover: [00:29:12] Yeah. I mean, Amazon's gotta be like the Goliath enemy that you guys are going up against. How have you guys combated the expectations that are set by Amazon, that consumers have?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:29:21] Well, I think right in two ways, one. You talk about how good for the world these products are and how amazing these these brand stories are and how much of an impact your purchase is really making like every one of these purchases is impacting someone's life, helping them to earn a living wage, helping them to have economic empowerment and freedom, right?

you're helping, helping to invest in some of these community programs, helping to point a better way toward a more eco-friendly economy. How to be part of a movement that, once all the businesses in the world, or as eco-friendly as the ones on done good.

We don't, it doesn't matter if the U S is in the Paris climate accord or not, we were greatly exceed those goals. Right. And once everyone is, you know, every company pays a living wage, like the company's on done. Good dude. Well, what's the difference? What the statutory minimum wage is set at. It doesn't matter if Congress passes a minimum wage increase or not.

Right. And so look getting to where every business acts as responsibly as the ones I've done. Good. Do you know what I mean? That ain't going to happen overnight, but every single time, any one of us chooses to make a purchase from one of these brands, it's steps closer to that world. So like, how do you combat Amazon?

One is talking about that and how the people really feel and understand. The difference that every single one of their purchasing decisions makes I really do believe that, who we choose to give our money to is the number one way. We all impact the world for all the other things we're doing voting marching donating.

then we're given a ton of our money to other people and whoever we give our money to, they get to keep doing what they're doing. So this is the number one way we impact the world. How are you going to impact it? Right. I think to a large degree that gets a lot of people to shop with us more often than with Amazon.

Now some people to me is still shoving incident. I still shove there once in a while. If it's like some, you know, like I got my sister a food processor and it was like, December 22nd, I needed it for Christmas. Like, yeah, guess what? I'll get that. You know, I got to get that. We don't have any done good food press.

There's no ethical or sustainable brand. I know that makes food processor, assessors. And also I was a dumb ass and wait until the 22nd. So I was in a pinch and we weren't going to be, we weren't together at Christmas. So I had to be shipped. And like, yeah, I got all my other shopping done except that, so guess what I did.

And so we know that there's, I mean, most of the shoppers also shop on Amazon sometimes and like, so that's, we're not even saying don't shop there all the time, just like check done good first and see if there's something in that. Right. So that's part of it. But then I think the other part is. Awesome.

Well, you said meeting people where they're at recognizing their realities and trying to make it as easy as possible, trying to get more and more brands. So we have more and more selections. So there's more and more things that people can get on done. Good. You know, one day we hope to have the ethical, sustainable food processor, right.

Once someone invented and also, like I said, doing sales, recognizing that people are people and. I, I think there's like a philosophical debate in amongst social enterprise. It's like, well, sales, you know, screaming about sales. That's like what the big box stores do. And that's like, you know, used car sales, man.

That's like, like cheapens, you know what we're doing somehow or whatever. And I like, yeah. And there's a reason big box stores do that. Whenever we have a sale sales go up, ultimately most cases we, we divert more money overall to the brands. Right. Then they would have otherwise. And so. being realistic that people are, that people are people even conscious consumers like a deal and are still on a budget.

I mean, we find that like the majority of people who use done good, who care about these issues, guess what, they, they also want their work to be making a positive impact on the world. So what are they doing? They're working on healthcare or education or for nonprofits or social enterprise or government.

So like, they don't have all the money in the world. Right. They're on a budget too, and they have to make choices. And so just being realistic about that. it's both like being the opposite of Amazon in terms of impact and being as much like them as possible in terms of shopping experience and trying to help with prices and affordability and being realistic about those things.

Reward: Concious Consumerism

Brandon Stover: [00:33:10] Consumers are a little different than your average consumer. and be doing business with them in terms of product marketing and sales?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:33:17] I think the first thing the place to start is they're not recognized the ways. They're not that different. They're not an alien. I mean, I'm a conscious consumer, right? but I mean, I'm also kind of a regular person. I mean,  Recognize the ways that people are similar to your average consumer and recognize that the conscious consumer who exclusively buys from social enterprises is virtually nonexistent. Like we hear things like, look, try my best, you know and they're, they're putting in the work and the time, and that's what they liked doing good because it reduces the work and the research, you know, they know they can trust on good to have done that research.

They know they can come for one stop shopping and it's quick and it's easy. they only have so much time to shop. They only have so much money to spend. And so they'll say things like, well, you know, you gotta pick your battles. Well, you can't do it all, you know? And of course that's correct.

I mean, there's a million infinite things we could all be doing at any given moment just to be making the world better. But here we are just running our mouths, talking to each other. Yeah. I only asked some people here at the, it helps to make an impact somehow. That's just, that's how most people feel like, look, I'm trying my best.

I'm going to make the best choice in all aspects of my life and is been as many cases as possible. I'm still confined to reality. And you know, at some point, if I can't find it quick enough or it's too expensive, like, and I'm not, I'm not going to it again. It's all the other boxes still need to be checked.

is it the kind of thing I'm looking for? Is it a good cause? A good enough quality is a good enough price. Et cetera, et cetera. If it's clothing, does it look cool is going to fit me? Those things don't go away. Right. And you can't ask people to sacrifice those things. And that's, I think the movement as a whole, the social enterprise movement as a whole has advanced quite a bit in that understanding, right?

Like when you talk about ethical fashion, like in the, in the odds and the two thousands, it was like, I just had this reputation as like MAPI and fashionable. It's like burlap sacks or all this stuff wasn't comfortable. You know what I mean? Is this like wasn't cool now. I think you do have a view of a huge variety of both ethical fashion, but now other kinds of companies to home goods, beauty supplies, food, and drink and everything.

Now they're starting to be a social enterprise and, for everything. And that's really encouraging, but I think it's that also brands are realizing like, no, but our stuff still has to be cool. And supposed to be good quality and it has to be all the other stuff, maybe even more so and also ethical and sustainable and yet also affordable.

Right? Like we have to try to check all the boxes as best we can. So that's how they're similar and yeah, and I think it's also just understanding that these are super thoughtful people. Who are going to do their research and who are going to think long and hard. That's why they're conscious consumers.

They're just kind of conscious and they realize, you know, how their actions impact the world and they're thoughtful. And so that means they're also tired. And you know, they're like, ah, you know, they're folks who are kind of like racking their brain. To try to live the best life they can and make the right shows, you know, remember there the reusable water bottle and get the compostable stuff and get the organic stuff with it.

You know, like when choosing them, all of these things, weighing all the trade-offs and they're just kind of tired and they're going to take a long time to make a purchasing decision. And then they're going to ask themselves, do I really need to buy this anyway? Do I really even need to make this purchase? Right. And so I think it's just like understanding. That that kind of mentality.

Brandon Stover: [00:36:26] Have you found anything interesting about the way to speak to conscious consumers that are different?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:36:31] We've found as much as I think Republicans on a loved on good, right? It's market-based, it's not government regulation. So we should all be able to agree that you're using the market to create a positive impact, should be a good thing.

We just haven't found that to be the case. Like our user base is like entirely politically progressive, which is great. Then it allows us to speak out on. Political social and political issues, as much as we feel like because our user base, our customer base loves it. So I do tend to encourage social enterprises to like feel free because I mean, it, it matters who your particular user base is, but we've found that ours is highly politically progressive.

And so rather than like chasing customers away by being politically, active, We never had really any of the, those customers on the other side anyway. And in fact, that just helps to galvanize and energize the customers we do have, and they love us for it. So I, I always say.

get to know your own customer base and, and all that. But we find that tend to be politically progressive, generally tend to be urban active youngish, but but really across the board. And because some of these products tend to be more expensive certainly than like the junk you find the masters junk, you find it big box stores, like an H and M or something.

You know, people always think like college kids, but if, if college kids don't have as much discretionary spending, then it's not always, college gets sometimes it's like maybe mid twenties and up. Right. but yeah, I think it just comes down to like recognizing that these folks are like, Beleaguered people who live in the real world and are trying their best, but also try to treat them like regular consumers who just happen to also care.

Brandon Stover: [00:38:02] Can you talk a little bit about the strategies that you guys have implemented, like better days and the holiday Sunday shopping and how those are unique for you guys?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:38:09] Well, again, it's recognizing that there's a reason that businesses put things on sale it's because we've found that sales work and conscious consumers are no different than, than others in that respect. And so that's, I mean, I said there's kind of this philosophical argument and within social enterprise about.

Whether we should, you know, talk about discounts and sales that I. I'm firmly on one camp that says, yeah, we should one again, it helps make things more affordable. And that means it's more accessible for more people to participate. I mean, I think that's a values driven choice too, right?

Like a lot of this ethical stuff is really expensive. I don't choose to buy some of it. You know, I'm on a budget too bad, you know? And so I think that's important. I know you see a lot of ethical fashion catering to a much higher end clientele and I think that's fine and that's good. But I'm glad to see there's other businesses who are finding ways to like, try to sell things to to a more mainstream audience, because that's, I think, you know, how you get more and more people that participate in you really have propel moving forward.

I mean, people are trying to make these purchasing decisions with all of these, all of these things in mind, checking all these boxes. Great. We have to do have to do sales sometimes to help help people make these choices and to help again, like I said, I help people participate. sales work also for these, I mentioned, these consumers are super thoughtful and will take weeks and weeks to think about it and decide but a sale on, Hey, this is on sale for four days. That'll help people make that choice. And that ultimately when they make that trust, that helps these social enterprises to be more successful and do more of the good that they're doing. Right.

So, yeah, like better days that's that was our, that's our sustainable alternative to Amazon prime day for the Amazon for social good. And they're doing prime day. Well, we should do better days. Right. And so that's it's, it's better, you know, better for people in the blend better than Amazon prime is better for people in the planet helps you can get a good deal and help create better days. Right. So that's why we call it their prime day were better days.

And yeah, shop for good Sunday, same thing. It's the, it's the ethical and sustainable. And I think, you know, more meaningful alternative to, black Friday the black Friday madness stampeding and, you know, traveling people in stores and all this, and we do try to communicate it to it in a more meaningful way.

I mean, look, yes, you can get this good deal. And also we're spending $1 trillion on holiday gifts. These holiday gifts are. You know, are I think more interesting, first of all right. Like in more meaningful and cooler and more unique and usually better made and higher quality, then, you know, just the, just the random homogeneous junk that they're trying to sell us at at the mall or not in the big box store website or through Amazon.

Right. It's still a lot of it is, it feels hollow.  Think, you know, something that's handmade by someone who's paid well tends to be higher quality and better. That's something that's mass produced in some giant factory someplace also then yeah. You can tell your loved ones, like, Hey plus. So you know, this gift that I got for you helps to create this positive change in the world, too.

Right? This jewelry helped a woman escape, sex, trans sex trafficking. And I know that you care about women's rights, you know And so, you know, we try to, I guess like meld, right? The, the reasons for the season, right? Like, okay. The holidays are, you know, you're buying gifts for people, but the holidays are also supposed to be about you know, something more meaningful than that.

Right. Well, we hope good. Well, we can marry all of these things, but people still want a good deal. Okay. Look. So it's black Friday weekend now shop for good Sunday instead. And, we hope a more meaningful experience for the buyer and for the recipient. And certainly it's helping to, to make a positive impact in the world.

And yes, also you can get a good deal on chapter. Good Sunday specifically, we just, we invented this a few years ago. We tried to get, anyone who's, who's interested in the business for good movement to, help be a part of that. Just like American express started small business Saturday.

But that's something that now all small businesses can use to help promote the cause of shopping small. Well, we looked and we said, look, there's black Friday, there's small business, Saturday, there's cyber Monday. There's giving Tuesday, but there was nothing on the Sunday. It was no one's taking the Sunday and there should be a day to promote social enterprises to promote.

dedicated to shopping with brands that do good for people in the planet during the holiday season. we, you know, going to shop for good Sunday as the, as that day and then black Friday alternative.  we just hope it is a combination of all those things, positive social impact, a more meaningful experience. And yes, also the deals, you

Brandon Stover: [00:42:25] hey, this is Brandon Stover and you're listening to the evolve podcast with Colin shorts have done. Good. And just a moment, you're going to hear how Colin was just finishing up the transition to a full scale marketplace. Watching a new business model when March 20, 20 hit and the pan damp tripled their traffic.

But first I wanted to let you know that all the resources and lessons from this episode are available as a free worksheet at evolve. the.world/episode/colon shorts. All of the lessons, Colin is sharing are super valuable, but they were only as valuable as the ones that you actually put into execution.

That's why it is still all the action items from this episode and every episode into one, easy to use step-by-step worksheet. So you can immediately apply them to your life and business lessons, like how to solve the chicken and the egg problem of marketplaces. How to think about conscious consumers versus regular consumers and advice for social entrepreneurs, just starting out and so much more.

These lessons are available at evolve. the.world/episodes/colon shore. That's evolve the.world/episode/colon shorts. Or you can follow the link inside the show notes of your podcast.

Also, Colin was generous enough to give all my listeners that's you guys, $20 off their purchase of a hundred dollars or more when you use the code evolve 20 at checkout. So now you can have all the opportunity to choose ethical sustainable brands, much easier. So you use the code evolve, 20 that's E V O.

L V E twenty@checkoutfortwentydollarsoffofyourpurchasesatdungog.com. Now let's get back to the evolved podcast with Colin shorts have done good as he shares how COVID affected the launch of their new business model at the beginning of 2020 and the growth that happened.

Return & Climax: COVID & Launching a new business modelCullen Schwarz: [00:44:05] Everyone said, Oh, you guys must be exploding because online shopping is up, you know, 8000%. It's like, well, yeah, that's because grocery sales went up 15000% or whatever. Meanwhile, clothing's down 15% home goods is, you know you know, steady.

And At first in March, our traffic just tanked like in mid March. Who's searching for shopping. Everyone's Googling COVID

right. So we just aren't traveling, just, you know, knows that. But then it quickly started to come back up and we've since, I mean, from Q1 to Q3 tripled our traffic this year.

So it's been, it's been great. In that respect we did find, I think it's, it's leveling out. And now that we're in the holidays, I think we're, it seems like we're pretty back to normal for like the block of like, especially like April and may and the end of the summer. A lot of our partner brands converted to selling things like face masks enhancement and, you know more stay at home essentials and, and things like that, which that means then we converted.

So those things too, and we started to feature those products more. So luckily, like we stopped selling a lot of the more discretionary items and some of the higher dollar items, but we were selling a lot of face masks and hand sanitizer and those sorts of things. And so now those are lower dollar items, but.

You were selling a lot of it. and the thing is we just made the transition from the, from the affiliate site to the marketplace. In mid-March that was already pre-planned. So we launched that just as the world changed. Right. And so how did, how did COVID affect that? How the hell we can't possibly know, you know, I mean, what would it have been like?

Otherwise we don't know. We launched a brand new business model just as the pandemic started and like, it was serious. It was like the same week, the restaurants and bars shut down here in Colorado. So It was like right at the time that everything, everything changed. I, I guess I do know that we stopped selling a lot of like higher dollar discretionary items and instead sold face masks enhancement or what, what would it have been like otherwise can tell you?

I mean, it's been interesting to say the least, but I think like later in the summer and into the fall, things started to even back out. And now that we're in the holidays, you know, people are still there. They're still buying presents. And in fact, traveling less and go into less stores.

Like maybe there. Shopping online more. So, you know, I don't know, man, it's a weird year. It's a mixed bag and nothing like launching a new business model. Right. Right when the whole world just gets turned upside down. So,

Brandon Stover: [00:46:18] Is going through your mind, like obviously you guys were planning, you know, up to that point, Hey, we're going to switch to this business model and then COVID hit. And so like what was going on during

Cullen Schwarz: [00:46:28] going through my mind. I was going through my mind after, after five years of doing this was going through my mind was, yeah, of course, like, this is how this is how shit always goes. Like, it's always stuff like this. I mean, every, you know, enough, it doesn't matter. I mean, I guess I'm just pretty. I'm pretty immune to shock at this point, or like just, it just seems par for the course for startups to tell you the truth.

I mean, that's just how you, you just, it's just how things go. Like of course this is what happens. Right. And so yeah, you know what are you going to do?

Return With The Elixer: Advice For The Future

Brandon Stover: [00:46:57] where do you see the most opportunity in social movements and conscious capitalism in the coming decade?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:47:02] You know, it started with ethical fashion and food, I think, right? Like when you talk about products being made more sustainably, but now we were talking bed sheets. Kitchen linens. And just every kind of product that the movement is expanding into every segment of the economy.

I mean, I hope SUNY, we even some electronics, I mean, we have some solar powered lights and some earbuds. There's still not a lot in the way of smart, like smart phones. There is a company Fairphone, they're only, still available in Europe, still not available in the States. But that is trying to make a more ethical smartphone.

Right. Are we going to get into flat-screen TVs? Or I mentioned the food processor earlier. I think it's just continuing to expand into more more areas. Right. I hope like tools like ours that are just helping them to connect more consumers With this growing group of brands and continuing to help make it easier and easier for more people to participate.

Because I, I think that's, that's the key.

Brandon Stover: [00:47:58] Do you give to someone who really wants to make an impact with the social enterprise and is just starting out?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:48:03] Develop a good business. And then think about how that business will be highly ethical and sustainable, right. Like, or start if you're starting with a cause that's fine too. Right. Hey, we wanna, you know, take plastic out of the ocean. Okay, fine. We, you know, we have companies like that are making sunglasses from, from ocean plastic.

That's cool. But  whatever you are, you're the sustainable blank. You gotta be good at the blank. Those sunglasses need to be cool. They need to be like awesome. And they need to have the right price point for the kind of glasses they are.

they have to be good glasses or if you're making, some kind of, you know, sustainable food or fair trade coffee, that'd be good food. That'd be great coffee. And your website's gotta be good and easy to navigate and your product's gotta be affordable.

Right. So it's, develop a good business. You can't just rely on the fact that you're the ethical blank. You're the sustainable blank, the sustainability, like that's not enough anymore, your businesses for you or your business. And that's for the movement as a whole, like, I think the movement has, has grown leaps and bounds in that respect.

We have to keep doing that. find your niche too, right? Like, Oh, I'm going to make really ethical. T-shirts. There's a lot of that, man. You know what I mean? Don't do that. You know, I mean, unless your t-shirt is different somehow, and the world needs your t-shirt don't do that.

Right? Like what does the world need?  the world needed ethical bedsheet companies. Now I think we have, you know, I mean, they're getting pretty good on that, right? So it's like, what is the, what is the movement missing? Right? What, maybe you ought to do that ethical, flat screen TV, right?

Cause it's, we're definitely missing that, but there's plenty of other things that the movement is missing that no one else is doing. Find that thing don't just replicate. Let's just put more noise into the space. Find your unique value proposition. We'll be really good at delivering.

Brandon Stover: [00:49:44] Cullen, I think that's excellent advice before I get to my last question. Where can everyone learn more about done good?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:49:50] Yeah, donegood.com. We actually just bought the.com on. I still, I still am excited to say done. good.com. We haven't even finished switching it over yet. You, you punch in donegood.com and you get redirected to donegood.co cause we've been the dark hole for years. Just a few months ago, we were able to You know, work something out generously with a great guy who has owned it since like the first.com era in the nineties ever able to acquire the DACA.

So I still, I really like to say it done good.com. We were just at it for a couple of months, so yeah, done. good.com  you can find us there. You can find our Chrome plug in there too. And because again, I do think that's for people who are like, well, I'm still going to look at Amazon sometime.

Great. You can look at Amazon sometime and still see the Donegood approved alternatives on the right side of the screen. But yeah, donegood.com has all, our brands has tens of thousands of products, you know, it's the, the Amazon for social good is as Forbes called us. So

Brandon Stover: [00:50:36] Awesome. Well, my last question is how can we push the world to evolve?

Cullen Schwarz: [00:50:40] Yeah. You're allowed to ask that with 60 seconds to go. Evolve him. And in what way, man? I mean shit, there's so many ways that we all need to evolve. I mean, as much as I do think, like, I mean, I chose this because I think it's, you know, and I'm making the air quotes again, the most important thing in the world.

I do think that, you know, the business for good movement changing from that paradigm that says businesses should just maximize profit at all costs instead saying no, we expect businesses to be a social actor in the world. Just like we expect people to be like, at least somewhat moral, we don't expect you to get what you can for yourself at all costs at all, to know, like we expect you to, acknowledge you're in a world of other people and act accordingly and businesses should do the same.

Right. And that, that shift that is occurring and is accelerating. Now, I'd still, I do believe will be the biggest shift of our time of this center. The most impactful when it comes to people or our mental issues. Social justice. I think consumer demand is the thing, the force that will help accelerate that. And so making it as easy for consumers to participate as possible is critical. That's why I chose this of all things to work.

That being said I think more broadly, it doesn't take a step back and say, instead of asking people to change their behavior, what are the ways that positive and kept back can be made.

Just by virtue of people doing what they're already doing anyway. They're like, I would say that that what we're doing is under that larger, right? Like, okay. People are going to shop anyway, how can that do, how can that do good and make an incredible impact. But I think there's other applications for that, right?

Like how does, how does people go into, well, nobody's going to concerts anymore with COVID, but like, how do you capture, like, I don't know that the heat and the energy from 30,000 people in a stadium and some, a harness that for good. Right? Like, and how do you, Instead of asking people to sacrifice and change their behavior.

How do we put a flywheel in their behavior? They already want it, you know, how do you ask people to like both have fun and be happy and create more happiness and also have that make a positive impact instead of this choice, sort of between happiness and, doing good. Right. And maybe people sacrifice to do good.

So I think that broader principle is something that I've just blocked out, but what are the other applications for, Ways that we can, we can heart harvest good by getting people to do what they want to do and what makes them happy.

Brandon Stover: [00:52:55] All right. Well, I love it. Colin. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Cullen Schwarz: [00:52:59] Thank you, man. No, this is fun. I really appreciate it.

Brandon Stover: [00:53:02] that was Colin Schwartz, founder of done good, a social enterprise driving the 130 trillion in consumer spending to what Forbes is called the Amazon for social. Good.

Yep. What I've found particularly impactful from Colin's insights today is that when you're going to build something that is the social blank or the ethical blank, when you're trying to be that conscious company that is building something that, you know, more socially or ethically responsible, you have to be as good or better than the rest of the competitors.

Like yes, you may, as he said, you may be making sunglasses that are more. You know, ethically built, but you have to still have super cool sunglasses that people actually want to buy. Um, you can't just skip out on quality or, you know, the awesomeness factor of it. So I think that's a really important takeaway.

And as a reminder, all the resources and lessons from this episode, or available as a free downloadable worksheet at evolve, the.world/episodes/colon shorts. You can also find all the show notes and transcripts for this episode and every CEP episode at evolve, the.world.

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